I had a brain burp yesterday and forgot to blog. No reason, I just forgot. But I’ve been reading through all the comments of the last couple of days.
In answer to Jason’s question, a good length for a book is 100,000 words or less. If you are a superstar, it can be economically viable to do much more than this. One of the Harry Potter books was up around 250,000 words, and still felt way short! But we mortals need to shoot for the 90,000 to 100,000 range.
I will second Rachel’s comment on PILLARS OF THE EARTH. That’s in my top five favorite books of all time.
MLE wrote:
Hi Randy, here’s what I’m puzzling over. I haven’t read the ‘wheel of time’ series that Ron referred to, but we all know lots of books that got published and sold well even though they blew all the rules of good writing; some were surprisingly readable, while others were downrigt awful. You were left thinking, “What editor would blow his company’s money on this?”
So I am testing some theses.
1.If you are well-enough known, that is, you have a following, you will sell regardless of what you write.
2. a mediocre work, well-marketed, will sell more copies than an outstanding work poorly marketed.
3. Publishers are erratic.
4. But on the other hand, most of what they receive is pretty bad. I think if you have to read gazillions of proposals a month, it must turn the brain into mush.
5. You have got to know who your writing to, and make sure that is who it will be marketed to.
All five of these are true. Let’s look at these in turn:
1.If you are well-enough known, that is, you have a following, you will sell regardless of what you write.
Randy sez: Yes, marketing in fiction depends strongly on your past history. See, for example, Tom Clancy. Of his last six books, two were excellent and the other four ranged from awful to mediocre. I loved all Clancy’s early work, but the simple fact is that it has declined in quality. Yet I continue to buy his books (and kick myself when they clunk).
2. a mediocre work, well-marketed, will sell more copies than an outstanding work poorly marketed.
Randy sez: Again, true. I personally know a number of outstanding novelists who sell quite badly. I would sell both my cats AND my dog to be able to write like these writers. But they sell about as well as wooden hot dogs.
Truth to tell, I’m not pleased with my own sales numbers. I’ve made a commitment to myself to never again write a novel that I don’t know how to market effectively. My feeling is that an outstanding writer ought to be able to write good sales copy and learn to market himself well. It’s all part of the same game. Writing well is NOT enough.
3. Publishers are erratic.
Randy sez: Yeah, they’re human. I have a good friend who until recently held the title “Publisher” at a major publishing house. I have another friend who currently wears that title at another publishing house. I have many, many editor friends. Publishers and editors are generally extremely smart, but they can’t make miracles happen. They can’t predict winners infallibly. They can’t make an unsavvy writer into a marketing genius. They simply can’t compel people to go out and read our books.
At the end of the day, they have to pay the electric bill just like everyone else, and if that means publishing a crappy writer who happens to be a brilliant marketer, then it may also mean that a terrific writer with no marketing platform is going to be passed over. Tragic, but true. If you were an editor or publisher, you’d make exactly the same decision. So would I.
The thing here is not to rail at the injustice of the universe. Sometimes you have to go out and kick the universe in the . . . um, groin. As writers, it’s our responsibility to learn to market our fiction effectively. Who else has that responsibility? Not the overworked, underpaid editors. (Most of them are, trust me.) It’s my job and your job to learn to market ourselves.
4. But on the other hand, most of what they receive is pretty bad. I think if you have to read gazillions of proposals a month, it must turn the brain into mush.
Randy sez: Most of what arrives on an editor’s desk is bad. Some is good. Excellence is rare. There are days when there’s a slot to fill in the catalog and the editor has to take what’s available. Other days, there is a wave of great stuff, and only one can be bought because there’s only one slot.
5. You have got to know who your writing to, and make sure that is who it will be marketed to.
Randy sez: Again, very true. I’ve been talking with Allison Bottke lately as we develop our next teleseminar on branding. I am a poster child for how to slow down your career by not branding yourself effectively. Allison has helped me see how to make the changes I have to make. And one of those is to identify your market. It’s not “Everybody.” Nobody gets read by everybody. Even J.K. Rowling only sells to about half of one percent of the planet. Think about that.
Find your niche market, figure out why the heck they should care about you, and then write them a book they HAVE to buy. Easier said than done, but that’s our job.
Artists have never been automatically supported by the Benevolent Universe. The universe is unjust and doesn’t care diddley about Great Art. We artists have always had to fight, kick, scratch, and claw for our livelihood. In the bad old days, that meant you might have to sing for your supper, and if your voice cracked, you got moldy bread.
These days, it means branding ourselves intelligently and marketing ourselves effectively. There are some writers who don’t want to “prostitute themselves” by thinking about marketing. I would bet that none of these writers has ever seen a real prostitute, or they’d thank their lucky stars that all they have to do is sell their writing.
Don’t want to prostitute themselves? I think that’s funny. I mean, do you want people to read your work or not? Even with a great story, you still got to get it out there.
It reminds me of a story told about the man who sat in front of his old cast-iron stove and demanded, “Give me heat, and then I’ll give you wood.”
Is it worthwhile marketing a first novel in advance if the chances of a first novel being published is really low?
Filling the niche is what it’s all about. I’m thinking of the recent Heartsong campaign where they wanted a certain number of books about each state in the US. Some were amazingly good, some were amazingly awful, but at least they completed their task. The readers read just for the sake of reading, and they have learned to take the bad with the good. Heartsong knows they’ll sell, and people will come back and take a chance again. Only thing is, a first-timer must write the amazingly good one in order to break into the club.
Still trying, and checking out other clubs,
Jenny
Oh, please! Don’t ever sell the doggie!
Interesting and discouraging stuff. Of course, we writers would rather write. But it’s the stark reality that we must market ourselves and our writing. Thanks for taking the time to help us out, Randy!
There’s no market for “used” cats and dogs either!
How do we find the niche that wants what we want to write? How do we find a niche and decide what it is looking for? (I do know about wordtracker). Where can we learn copywriting?
I’m working on all these things to create a platform for the books thatI am writing.
I’m willing to chop the wood and load the stove, but so far, I seem to be missing the trees and the stove–and a bit of flint and steel would help too!
I recommend your first series with Allison, and I have at least some of those goals accomplished. I am eager to hear the next sessions. Your teleconferences are well-scripted, unlike a number of others I have heard.
Pam,
I have something even more discouraging… I had to go back and see what I posted because I don’t remember posting!!!! And it was long, even!
But, then, I’m something of a zombie right now. Anyone want a cat with tourette’s and a dog that scared to death of thunderstorms? I really should get some valium.
For the dog…not me.
Although speaking of drugs, I already prostitute myself to the drug companies for grant money. Research is expensive and if they’re willing to fork over money, I’ll take it. However, I don’t and won’t sacrifice my academic integrity by doing shoddy work just to throw a good light on their products. I think the same goes with writing. I might have to prostitute myself to the publishers, but it doesn’t mean I have to produce mediocre work.
Once you have a loyal following you should continue to thank them by putting out good work that they’ll continue to recommend and help your fanbase grow. Put out bad work and you’ll start to lose your fanbase and fail to draw in new fans.
In veterinary medicine, we rely heavily on word of mouth recommendations. We use the rule of thumb: Treat one client well, gain two new clients; treat one client bad, lose ten current or potential clients. Bad news travels further and faster than good.
I have heard that ‘prostitution’ theme, and it always sounds like whining to me. But I had the advantage of being raised in a family of architects, which is art, knowledge and creativity put to the service of those who build things that have to stand earthquakes. My Dad used to say “if it doesn’t get built, it doesn’t matter how clever it is, you’ve wasted your time.”
As an adult, I don’t think I quite agree with him — as long as he got paid for his time, we all ate!
The problem with writing is, lots of people are willing to write without getting paid, and that creates an oversupply. The market (ye olde prostitue’s customers) naturally devalues what there is too much of.
In that market, you have to be really good at everything for long-run success: writing, marketing, publishing, and now blogging.
At which you are doing a great job, Randy!
PS it’s okay not to blog every day. Your fan base keeps this thing going nicely.
Enjoy the ride! -MLE
In May I attended the Colorado Christian Writer’s Conference in Estes Park. The mantra from both editors and agents was, “get a platform”. Lot’s of talk about this “platform” thing.
What I took home, was that as someone looking to publish my first novel, I need to be getting “known” now. Agents, editors – the first thing they seem to ask a newbie is “what’s your platform?”
There’s no way to avoid it. Another hopeful novelist and I are plotting our platform. We’re mom, we’re in MOPS – MOPS groups need speakers. She writes women’s lit, I write comtemporary YA/women’s.
You blog is fantastic!
Darcie
www.joyinthelitterbox.blogspot.com
Speak to us of platforms, Randy. I have issues with this issue.
My Mother was a budding writer who went to a writing conference many moons ago. There she learned that for her writing to be relevent or marketable, she had to have something to say. The tragic result was that she stopped writing, because she felt that she didn’t have anything to say.
I think that the PEE her writing was geared for was escapism. As a fantasy writer, it’s mine too. What kind of platform is there for fantasy? In many cases fantasy and sci-fi are great backdrops for societal commentary and political agenda, but when used that way it can really ruin a good story. Nobody reads to get preached at, and it’s no fun to write with a mindset of “I must make sure they get my message!”
If I had to define a platform for myself, I guess it would be that everyone (I write for the juvenile female population) has a cosmic significance or destiny.
Hmm, if I just answered my own question there (not sure that I have), I have a fresh one. Once you get a platform, what on earth do you do with it?
Any thoughts would be very appreciated!
~bonne
(P.S. Am I the only one who thinks JK Rowling is a good storyteller trapped in the body of a bad writer?) Oh dear, was that my outside voice?
Sell the cat, though!
–Snoopy
I was delighted to see that Randy, too, applauded “Pillars of the Earth.”
Wouldn’t it be interesting to see everyone’s list of favorite books?
One of my nominations would be “Voices of Glory” by Davis Grubb, the
story of a public health nurse fighting tuberculosis in small southern town.
Each chapter was a “voice” from the town of Glory, and stood as a separate
story till the last half of the book where all the stories melded. Great story; great example of good writing.
Anyone else?
To Kill a Mockingbird, Harper Lee
The Once and Future King, T.H. White
I think that the road to success is paved with excellence. We must work hard at the craft and supply good content.
The marketing aspect has a lot to do with the quality of the work itself; it must be reflective of the package being generated.
It’s interesting if you compare an author’s work to an actor who is type-cast into a particular kind of roll.
For this reason, an author must be careful if they are becoming “known” for a particular style. This is probably a good reason to use pseudonyms in some cases when you’re starting out.
Blessings,
Joleena
ML,
The ‘prostitution theme’ isn’t really whining…well, some people whine about it. It’s all about selling yourself and convincing your ‘client’ that you are invaluable to them, that you have something no one else has. And if you do your job well, your potential ‘clients’ will seek you out.
For my research, we have established a good model for studying the effectiveness of NSAIDs in horses. We use this model as a hook with pharmaceutical companies to fund research studies. Now, however, we have them coming to us asking for a proposal to study some new drug or another.
Favorite books/authors: Large variety from Homer to many contempory authors of Sci-Fi/Fantasy/Horror.
I’m half-embarassed to add the Harry Potter books, mostly because they’re an easy read and I really like the story line (I hated that she killed off Professor Dumbledore in the Half-Blood Prince).
I also have to add that I’ve tried reading ‘Pillars of the Earth’, but not my cup of tea (although I did get further into it than I did ‘The Grapes of Wrath’-never got past p.5)
There was quite a lengthy thread on writing in multiple genres at the ACFW loop over the last few days. I was “shocked & awed” to see how many people had successfully published several books in numerous markets. They don’t seem to care about branding, and apparently, neither do their agents or publishers.
Not that I have some need to take on a broad range of genres… But I wonder if people fan out because they need move on to other things once they’ve gotten something off their chest.
ie: my current wip drips with sweetness (my keyboard is even getting sticky) and it refuses to let me be dark, witty or sarcastic. I need to finish the sucker before I gag. The longer this takes, the darker, more cynical my next project will be.
Hearing all the talk about branding worries me… if I get this hearts-a-flutter candy off my chest, and then *IF* it even makes it, am I trapped?
How much latitude is there in one’s “brand”?
Judging by some of the ACFW “free range” (brandless)posters, you’d think branding didn’t matter at all.
Camille, aka Confused Newbie
Ron,
Did you find an NSAID that didn’t cause stomach problems? I always have to worry about using banamine with my llamas, altho with most other meds they are a lot tougher than our donkey.
Camille,
According to the publishers transcipts from the BEA, after an author gains a large enough following, he becomes a brand unto himself. Pillars of the Earth (which I mean to read, but I’m saving it for a long pack-trip) is a good example of this. Ken Follett had enough of a following from his suspense that he could write this huge historical novel. But his early works stuck pretty close to WWII spy stuff and the like.
Favorite books: Lord of the Rings, Shadow of the Moon, Shogun, the Good Earth, and the Mark of the Lion series by Francine Rivers.
Oh and Ron, I prefer to think of developing long-term relationships. Not prostitution for the market, but marriage to my readers ;-).
Enjoy the ride! -MLE
Forgot to add Dune (but not the sequels, ugh, Jane Eyre, and Screwtape Letters. This could go on and on…
Enjoy the read! -MLE
ML,
Sent an e-mail regarding the NSAID question since that’s heading way off topic.
I do agree with you in forming a marriage or LTR with your readers and/or your niche market since, ultimately, they’re the ones who are going to make you or break you.
However, to get to your reader you have to get published. But to get published you have to deal with a publisher (I’m excluding self-publishing here). And in order to get the publisher to look at you, you have to sell yourself and make them want you. This is where the notion of ‘prostitution’ comes in because you’re selling yourself (and hoping to make money by doing so). With the publisher, it’s strictly a business arrangement. You’re using them and they’re using you.
I can see why a lot of people don’t like the term ‘prostitution’; but, and maybe it’s just the liberal progressive in me, I don’t associate it with any negative connotations.
Dear friends,
I love listening to you all each day and seldom say much. But tonight, I’ll put a word in. I have attended several conferences over the last few years and am learning so much. This website has been as good or better than any conference–little bits of input for me to digest each day rather than a feast I can’t possibly take in.
About Platforms–I have been writing a fantasy series for many years. It is my heart and soul, and the reason I have tried to learn my “craft.” One publisher has become a friend and is guiding me gently through my freshman, sophomore and now perhaps my junior stages. She told me that if I were really serious about getting my trilogy published, I needed to get a platform established first.
The fantasy market, especially the Christian one, is very difficult to break into. When I told her that dyslexia is the only subject in which I’m expert enough to speak with any credibility, she said that would work.(I just retired as a reading specialist and researcher from a public elementary school.)
So I’ve spent my first retirement year developing that platform. When I introduce myself to a group, I mention that iin my other life, I’m a Christian author who is writing a fantasy series that kids love and so do their parents. It’s amazing. Every time, some teachers or parents comes up afterwards and asks how soon the trilogy will be available. I’m sure I’ll be able to sell as many fantasy books as teacher resource books at any class I give. I’m sure it would be better if my platform were more connected to the fantasy world, but this world seems to work for now. At least it has given me a place to begin.
For the next few days, I’ve given up my tenny-runners for heels and my holey jeans for a fashionable dress, and I’m making it to every school within 40 miles of my home in Southern Oregon. I have blisters on my blisters, but school is out and the principals are in for a few more days. The marketing skills I’m learning now will transfer to my fantasy works when I’m ready.
I actually pitched my speaking series to a principal I’d never met before. That was even harder than an editor–and I did it! I only have to do it about 30 more times by next Friday. Boy! Wait ’til I get to the conference this year! It’s going to be a piece of cake!
Carol
P.S. Ron, one comment about Robert Jordan. I agree with everything you said, but he’s still the only author I go and check on whenever I go to Borders. I actually pray for the man. He’s been very ill, but I need him to live long enough to finish the series. I care about Rand and Egwene and Lan and…all eight protagonists. He can’t leave me hanging this way!
I guess if you create a real enough world, your readers will forgive your foibles in order to live in that world with you.
Dear Randy. I pushed the submit button by mistake. Please edit out the last half. I didn’t realize it was so long.
Since it is important to market your own work anyway, why not self-publish?
I joined a local writers group last night. Its amazing what a difference having feedback makes both in the writers group and in this blog.
Thanks for the advice people have given here. I look forward to reading all the comments.
From what I’ve read so far, it appears it is still a good idea to begin marketing while writing the first book but I think I will wait until my first draft is finished because I don’t know how much it will change from the original idea. I’m always scared too that if I talk too much about it before I have it on paper the inspiration will vanish.