I’ll continue to answer questions today on those pesky Scenes and Sequels.
Christophe wrote:
Somehow I always had it in my head that too much POV switching throughout your novel is bad. But I’ve been checking into my favorite novels and I came to the startling conclusion that even my favorite authors show more than 3 or 4 POV’s. For some reason, I was convinced that the best way to go was to stay in 1 POV, with the occasional slip into another to break the flow.
Is there a rule to this? Besides the fact that you don’t switch POV within a scene?
Randy sez: There’s no hard rule here. Many excellent novels have been written with a single POV. Many others have been written with several. The Godfather seemed to have dozens. It all depends on how many you need.
Camille wrote:
I have a scene that I’m wondering if it works: Some of the G/C/D elements are shown in recollections of the POV char instead of in a forward flow of time.
The scene starts with POV char looking forward to a trip (goal), relieved that things have finally worked out. A brief mental recollection about a friend shows us his reason for wanting to make the trip, giving us sympathy for him (?) The Conflict and Disaster that may have prevented the trip are shown next in his recollections, along with how it was resolved. This portion of scene ends with his current, doubtful but humorous view of the solution.
Randy sez: I’m not sure what it means that they “may have prevented the trip.” It sounds like this is all being told in flashback. That can work, but you should always ask when using a flashback why you need the flashback. It’s hard for me to say whether this works without actually reading the scene.
Diane wrote:
In further speculation of the scene in which I feared the disaster was for the wrong character, I realized that I may actually have a full scene, plus abbreviated sequel in one POV scene. The POV character is not faced with a huge disaster, but a slight bump on the road to the goal that is immediately reacted to and a decision is made in relation to it. The greater disaster, which is impending for the antagonist is actually a major plot of the book, so while it is a main part of the scene it isn’t actually the scene’s disaster. I’m beginning to realize that these aspects of scene/sequel can actually be quite subtle. So is it OK to have all those elements in one scene rather than breaking them up?
Randy sez: It’s quite OK to have a Scene and Sequel run together in one big glop. The reader won’t know or care. Your fellow authors will know, but they won’t care either, as long as it works. If it doesn’t work, the reader will put the book down and your fellow authors will mock you secretly behind your back. So make sure it works.
It looks like we’re running out of steam on Scenes and Sequels, so I’m going to go back to the list of questions that you all asked about a week ago and find a new topic.
Hey everyone,
I was wondering if someone could help out with endings. I always try to think how it will be when I actually start the story, but by the time I’m done it usually turns out different and the beautiful ending line I spent a day thinking can’t be used, and I usually can’t think of a new one.
What should be done?
Destiny,
I’m always up for brain storming! Somehow I can help other better than I can help myself. I’d love to help you out. 🙂
If you want to you can drop me an email at cd(at)narf(dot)be.
At the end of my WIP I want to encourage the reader to pick up the next book in the series. How much of a dilemma do I show? How much of the POV’s new goal and conflict do I introduce? Do I hint at the pending disaster? Or do I leave well enough alone, and trust that the reader will be interested enough in the character’s life to want to read more?
Lynn,
Some of the books I’ve read lately end the first book of the series at the end of the first phase of the story line, resolving the main conflict of that book, but since it’s a series there would be an unresolved conflict that is the underlying theme of the series.
After the last chapter of the first book there is an introduction to the next book in the series, and the first chapter of the next book.
At the end of each book they do the same until you get to the exciting conclusion that resolves the main conflict of that book and the underlying theme (conflict) of the series.
Hope that’s helpful.
I would suggest not leaving the reader well to do. It may be better for your type of book, but how I am, I probably wouldn’t trust the reader to have enjoyed the book enough to pick up the next one in the series. Even if I did, I think it is safer/more interesting and fun/possible to get your readers talkign about your book if you end in with something that keeps them guessing. Even if they loved it, when you end it peacefully, they can choose to pick the next one up or not. Leaving questions demands their loyalty to the seires and is almost unsettling to them if they do not continue reading your books
Hi Randy,
Some scene-sequel questions. Just got back from a week-long packtrip, during which I read 3 books specifically to figure out why all the big bookstores now stock every one of this author’s series, altho when they were coming out and I was reading every historical fiction novel I could get my hands on, I had never heard of Dorothy Dunnett. (She’s dead now, so we can comment freely!)
Boy, does she break the rules everywhere, especialy in the first book. In fact, if word-of-blog had not been so strongly in her favor, I would not have gotten far enough to be hooked. She uses so many POVs that it makes your head spin, and she’s not ‘honest’ in letting you know her POV character’s real thoughts, and she uses quotes in four languages without translating. But if you stick it out, it becomes an addiction. I am sure I will finish all six books in the series, to the enrichment of her heirs.
One of the reasons is that she seems to do 3 scenes to 1 sequel; her sequels tend to be narrative-style and short, and then you are off into another scene. Sometimes she switches POV in mid-scene.
I’m fairly sure that if I wrote like that, nobody would read my books. Why are these novels selling now, but not in the ’60s and ’70s when they were written? They sure take a lot of work to get through.
Thoughts, anybody?
-MLE
Hi Randy,
I’m back with POV. 🙂
I’m using your Snowflake Method with much success, and I’m going to start my First Draft next weekend or so. However, this POV thing keeps bothering me.
I’ve been thinking of using first person POV, because I think that it would work really well for my protagonist. However, this would force me to write a prologue about him in someone else’s third person POV (since the reader should not know straight away he is the protagonist, that should only be clear in the first chapter). Furthermore, I have several story lines, the biggest one being that of the protagonist of course. However, the two other storylines don’t always have him in the scene. Do you think it’s acceptable to switch between first person protagonist POV in one chapter to someone else’s third person POV in the next?
Thanks for the answer, it would settle my nerves and clear my doubts for the First Draft 🙂
Randy sez:…It sounds like this is all being told in flashback. That can work, but you should always ask when using a flashback why you need the flashback. It’s hard for me to say whether this works without actually reading the scene.
(and I certainly wouldn’t turn down any offers by those who have time to read the 3-1/2 double-spaced pages…)
Why did I choose a flashback? To save time and keep the storyline from getting sidetracked. This is part of chapter 3. The 2 main characters don’t meet until chp 7. I was afraid of confusing a reader by putting too much focus on secondary events in front of the main event.
On MLE’s note: There are a lot of rule breakers out there, keep discovering. I hear the rules–guidelines, really–may be broken when the writing/storytelling is terribly superb. Or the author is big enough to be above the law. But, obviously, when we get hooked, there is something mysteriously effective going on in the writing that somehow transcends the rules.
Since current readers want to be hooked sooner and with less effort than in days past, it’s hard to understand why something that takes much work to “get into” would suddenly sell big. Maybe it’s a sign of a new trend. Maybe people want to train themselves to have a longer attention span and learn to unearth deeper buried gold. Maybe this generation, the one that decided to translate many of Jane Austen’s novels onto the screen and thus into the language of today’s visual generation, realized there was gold beyond the first hundred pages and wants credit for being able to spot something of value. Just a thought.
Newbie needs help! I am starting the Snowflake method and am struggling with my one-sentence summary. Who knew the very first step would stump me?
Would anyone be willing to give me some feedback?
And also, if you’re planning a series of three books, do you write a proposal for each book or one proposal together? How does that affect your one-sentence summary? Any ideas?
God bless!
racheleesmith(at)yahoo(dot)com
Camille says:
Why did I choose a flashback? To save time and keep the storyline from getting sidetracked. This is part of chapter 3. The 2 main characters don’t meet until chp 7. I was afraid of confusing a reader by putting too much focus on secondary events in front of the main event.
I say:
In my opinion “To save time and keep the storyline from getting sidetracked” is not a good excuse or reason why you should go for a flashback. There are so many subtle ways of giving the same information, as detailed as you want, without using flashbacks. And you can write it in such a way where it doesn’t feel rushed or forced. In fact, my opinion is that flashbacks force your reader to feel pushed into information more than not using them.
My opinion of course, don’t shoot me.
Like MLE, I’ve just returned from a week away. What an enriching read the last few days here on the blog.
Camille, I’m encouraged by your comments regarding rule-breakers. I honour the requirement to learn the rules before breaking them it’s nice to know that the unique je ne sais quoi, (was that supposed to have an apostrophe, Christophe?) even if it isn’t what “everyone” says is selling, can put it over the top.
So what’s the next topic?
“Je ne sais quoi” is correct 🙂
[Christophe~ I tried to comment on your site and there doesn’t seem to be a “submit” button to make it go up.]
Really? Strange. I just took a look and everything seems to be there. If you could send me an email and tell me exactly what you did and what went wrong, I would greatly appreciate it. Don’t want to hijack Randy’s blog 🙂
My email address is cd(at)narf(dot)be. Obviously change the (at) and (dot) first 🙂