Yesterday, I asked the ladies to post pieces of interior monologue from one of their male characters so we could give a little friendly advice on whether their guys are thinking like real guys.
Holly wrote:
Hunting for a monologue proved harder than I thought – most of what I found was blatant telling of emotion, and that’s got to go! Now I’m on a manuscript hunt to find and kill all descriptions of the emotion I’ve already showed (or haven’t showed yet).
What, by the way, constitutes a true monologue? Is it the POV character’s description of events, or action, or his feelings/thoughts? And when does monologue cease to be monologe and become telling, or vice versa? What is a good size for said monologue – can a monologue be only a couple sencences long or is that just a beat?
Randy sez: We’ve discussed interior monologue here on the blog a few months ago. It’s the thoughts that go through a character’s mind that the reader gets to peek in on. It can be shallow (summarizing what he’s thinking) or medium (telling what he’s thinking, but not exactly in his words) or deep (telling it EXACTLY the way he’s thinking it).
Yes, interior monologue is best done in short snippets. One or two sentences is fine. When you start going paragraphs at a time in interior monologue, you start losing readers unless you’re brilliant at it.
Camille posted this example:
A week later, Ian still had no idea what he was going to do about his trip and his obstinate grannie. He sat in the cottage kitchen again, staring at the telephone, hammering his brain for a solution. But all he could think of was their new minister running down the drive as fast as his bony legs would carry him, with Maggie on his heels, glinting blade in hand.
God, tell me again why I’m here?
He kept staring at the telephone as though the Almighty would ring with an answer. Maybe pounding his head against the wall would silence the nagging doubts—doubts about moving back here and trying to help a mule-headed old woman who battled him every step of the way.
But deep down, he already knew why. This was where God wanted him.
Randy sez: This is fine. I don’t get the idea that Ian’s a woman in man’s clothing here.
Donna posted this example from her historical novel:
I’ve known Christophe since we were young and he has been and remains my closest friend, the only one I told about the Houghtons. Even now I don’t think he fully understands my desire to find my heritage. He says that my heritage is the homestead and that if the Houghtons had had family anywhere in England that my birth mother would have insisted I be taken to them after her death instead of giving me to the Blays to raise as their own as well as giving them the farm. That point has confused me too but I can’t help the burning desire to find where they came from and whatever details I can gleen about them.
I can’t even answer as to why I kept travelling north, only that it was like some force calling me there. I can’t explain it except to say that it must have to do with Erandin. Whether or not that is where either had come from I still do not know. What I do know is that as soon as I arrived in Erandin, I felt as though I had been there before, even though I haven’t been. It was like stepping into one of the dreams I had as a child.
Randy sez: What I see here are a lot of longish sentences. These days, that’s more characteristic of women than men. I’m not sure if that’s true in the time period Donna’s writing for. Since the readers are going to be moderns, it might make sense to break these up some.
The other thing I noted was the word “desire.” That strikes me as a word that women are more likely to use than men. If someone says, “I desire that,” I’d bet odds of 3 to 1 that the speaker is a woman. It’s a minor point, but I think it shades the passage a bit “pink.” A modern guy would say, “I want that.”
The final point I’d like to make is this: “Use action verbs!” Men, on average, tend to be more proactive and forceful. Sure, there are lots who aren’t, but the manly guy goes out to kick butt. In the passage above, I’d say the guy wants to “dig up info,” not “glean details.”
Lynn posted this snippet:
Raktavio’s mind wandered over the past weeks, from the time he met Gratia, to the command to marry her, and then it lingered over the time in the dungeon of Selvz’ Temple at Ekentav. In the darkness of that dungeon, he discovered his loyalty to her was more than duty. Oh, she could gall him. The corner of his mouth lifted at the memory. Somehow, though, she had captured his heart.
Agh! He pounded his knees. He had done his duty to the King. Why had not the Mountain Lion protected them last night? Shaking his head, he stood up. This is not how a King’s Knight should act, let alone one titled Prince.
Randy sez: I see a couple verbs that could be stronger: “wandered” and “lingered.” These are not what I sometimes jokingly call “manly verbs.” Manly guys don’t wander and linger. They know where they’re going and they don’t mess around when they get there.
Pounding the knees is a good “manly” action. Overall, this passage is reasonably manly, but I think you can punch up a couple of verbs there.
Here was Lynda’s snippet:
He caught her wrist as she stood. “I’ve seen that guy—Ir—hanging around. Is he the problem?”
“Jae, I really need to go.”
He released her and watched her limp up the path. It was true. He placed his head in his hands. His heart ached. Bad.
Randy sez: I think that “caught” could be made a little more “manly.” Can he “grab” it? Or “snatch” it? And “placed” is a little weak too. Can he “clutch” his head?
I read your newsletter and then your blog. You are truly amazing, Randy. Thanks for teaching us so much.
Thanks Randy, for taking a look at our ‘guys’, and for the advice on keeping the inerior monologue short. I didn’t know that.
Are you writing about me there, Donna? 😉
I found reading the two past blog entries, along with the comments, very interesting. Not only does it give me a little insight on how women view men (something that’s always useful information, for more reasons than one!) it also made me think harder about my female characters. In my current WIP I’ve tried to stay out of my female character’s heads. Not because I’m afraid to get in touch with mine or their feelings, but because I have a big fear of how women readers would respond to “badly written” women.
I know Randy will be utterly useless in this (or I suspect he will :)) so could any ladies comment on this and give me some pointers on how to write convincing female characters?
Cheers
Don’t worry, Christophe. As long as your women aren’t idiots the moment a man is around, I’m happy. There’s this James Bond movie I catch on tv a lot where the female spy flies the plane into a mountain the minute Bond is done with hs fight. Please don’t do that to us.
I also hate Robert Jordan’s books where the women seem to exist only to allow Rand to have freaky fantasies. Please don’t do that to us, either. I think it bothers me so much because that ranks pretty high on my list of personal fears. I want to be enough for my man all by myself, thank you. I know polygamy exists in a lot of places at a lot of times, but he’d have to try a lot harder to make me believe women outside that culture would be ok with it.
Thanks for all the insight, Randy – it has been a lot of help. What surprised me, though, was how my writing seemed to be following that terse, action-oriented diction already. My reading tends to be in scifi and fantasy, which is a good 75% male protagonists, so somehow or other, I’m saturated in male POV. I guess I must absorbed the flow of it in all my reading. The downside of this is I also struggle with writing non-sappy women’s POV even though I am one, maybe because alot of the male authors I read struggle with it too.
Is talking about the heart something men do/do not do, like in Lynda’s snippet above? I noticed that her example was terse, direct, which seemed manly to me. But I’m curious if talking about such things is a point of annoyance or vulnerability for men, and would they do it often or only rarely? (Or does that depend on personality anyway?) Would they mention heart, or go about saying the same thing in some other more macho way?
In my experience as a man and having male friends, men don’t often mention the heart or their heart in matters of romance. The vocabulary used to describe emotions of love limits itself mostly to “liking someone” to “liking someone a lot”. Things like being in love, loving someone or mentioning these feelings in ways that women are used to doing, don’t happen too often. This, so far, I think most women know.
What most or some women probably don’t realize, is that when men talk to each other like this, they often “understand” what the others mean. They get the underlying emotions, even though the vocabulary used to express these (seemingly superficial) feelings is limited at best.
So maybe, and I’m going out on a limb here, maybe men talk about their emotions enough, they (we) just have different ways of expressing ourselves.
Now, as for internal dialogue… I think like most people, you mostly use the same way of saying things than you do out loud. So, mentioning the heart that way would probably not work, IMO.
Thank you Randy, you are a great help. Now I’m going to go back through my manuscript and evaluate my verbs.
Food. Sex. Blow things up. Sleep. How’s that for male inner dialog? 😉
Thanks, Randy. I’ll work on the verbs.
I learned something from my son when I took him shopping for the VERY last time. Grunt meant “yes”, grunt meant “no”, and grunt meant “maybe”. It all depended on the context.
From observing my mostly male family, males can derive a lot of meaning from a simple “yeah”. Again, it all depends on the context. I guess when men were hunting sabre-toothed lions the guy who used a lot of verbage was eliminated from the gene pool.
Thanks Randy! By the way, I am in the middle of the Clean Up Your Act seminar, it is awesome.
Karla – Rock on! I could read about that stuff all day.
Karla,
You forgot football. I mean, come on.
😉
It’s terrible, Christophe, but the first thing that came to my mind when you asked for pointers about writing convincing female characters was a quote from a Jack Nicholson movie, where he played a successful novelist.
When he was asked “How do you write women so well?”
he answered:
“I think of a man and take away reason and accountability.”
Rachel
(ducking … because of course ALL women are reasonable and accountable!)
Hi Christophe,
It’s kind of difficult to give useful advice without knowing anything about your female characters, but in general I’d say just avoid the stereotype extremes. Most women don’t pace around wringing their hands and sighing for days on end, nor do most women conquer the world in a catsuit. Of course, if your character is the heroine of a melodrama or an action thriller, these types might work well (respectively). But as a female reader, I tend not to like reading about female characters who are too swoony or too kick-butt.
As Randy pointed out, women tend to feel and men tend to think, but some men feel more than women and some women think more than men – so don’t let the “norm” restrict your creativity. Making your character believeable is the main thing. And I think you do that by giving every character, whether male or female, good guy or villain, at least one trait or circumstance the reader can relate to. What I like to see in any character, male or female, is a really believeable weakness and a determination to overcome or work through that weakness.
To make your female character believeable, balance her strengths with her weaknesses. And I don’t just mean personality traits, although those are certainly important. I don’t like all or nothing physical stereotypes, either. If your heroine is supposed to be gorgeous, give her at least one flaw, like a nose she doesn’t like, and don’t highlight the obvious. Rather than describing her full, pouty lips or looong legs, for example, describe the delicate lines of her collarbone or the shape of her ears. If she is supposed to be plain, give her at least one beautiful feature, perhaps something the casual observer wouldn’t notice, like graceful hands.
Maybe if you give us some brief descriptions of your female characters, we ladies could come up with some more specific pointers. Thanks for asking – I appreciate that you’re concerned about your potential female readership. 🙂
Karla-you crack me up! (I know we’re supposed to say LOL, but I’m a non-conformist, and besides, I’m not laughing out loud, just grinning broadly).
Lynda-you also got me grinning broadly (okay, GB, can I invent that?) I posted earlier that, in spite of the fact there are 4 grown males in my home, I’m not sure I understand how they think. Now (grunting) I know why.
Christophe – a book was suggested a few blogs ago by Shaunti Feldhahn about what women need to know about men — she also has one for men about getting into the *heads* of women. She co-wrote it with her hub, which makes sense. She probably needed to know what men think women think so she could approach them with the real skinny. Which btw is another issue you want to stay away from.
It’s been a while, but I read some Nicholas Sparks and thought he did an overall good job on the females, but also remember groaning on occasion. And there’s this Ingermanson guy who wrote some believable females. Even if a female is written more proactive and less dramatic, like Rivka, there are lots of us chicks who can getter relate to that kind of girl than the others. Some of us don’t get drama. OR shopping. (ducking)
And on men writing women…. I COULD vent about men writing books and screenplays that show the women thinking and behaving exactly the way a man would WANT them to, rather than as the rational creatures we all are, but then I’d be a hypocrite, because most women enjoy a fictional Hero who talks, thinks about us and behaves the way WE want him to, rather than …
Well, I’ll let you know when I find a best-seller in women’s fiction with a belching Hero who watches football, thinks about his woman when he sees a beer commercial, and grunts (ooo-ducking AND grining broadly).
Well, poo! I missed the whole “post-an-example-of-your-male-inner-dialogue” thing. It’s okay though, because Randy’s comments on all the other examples has really helped me. In fact, I’m now going through my novels AGAIN trying to find any “un-manly” verbs etc.
Really, really good information. Thanks Randy!! I certainly want my male MC to be manly.
Well, poo! I missed the whole “post-an-example-of-your-male-inner-dialogue” thing. It’s okay though, because Randy’s comments on all the other examples has really helped me. In fact, I’m now going through my novels AGAIN trying to find any “un-manly” verbs etc.
Really, really good information. Thanks Randy!! I certainly want my male MC to be manly.
I enjoy this topic. Women trying to understand men. Obviously I am kidding a little with that but seriously, now, I don’t have women POV characters in the novel I am working on, but I agree with any man that says that we should go over women character monologues.
Also I think that in most of the ideas that the women were writing seemed to flow in my mind immediately as a woman speaker. I agree maybe some more “doing” words and some more rough, straightforward thoughts work well. Men tend to be stereotyped as not thinking too deeply into things, or at least it takes more effort, so for casual moments unless you ahve a feminine man, you might want to think of short thoughts.
I might be wrong, but that seems to be a male thing .
Christophe (sorry, it was my son’s idea that I make a character using the french version of his name.):)
My advice to you is to remember that women can multitask on several things at the same time and keep them all straight in her mind. We also can read people pretty well. We can size up another woman within a minute of meeting her and usually be right. We also, or most of us, have gut feelings about things that are usually right on. It’s how, as mothers, we can know what our kids are doing two rooms down with the door shut just by hearing a sound or maybe not hearing a sound when there should be one.
I second Camille’s suggestion of Nicholas Sparks. He does a good job, although there are times when I think “Well, he was close but didn’t quite get it right.” Other than that, I can’t think of any I’ve read from a man writing in a woman’s POV.
I want to thank Randy and everyone that commented on my snippet. I definitely need to do some rewriting and thinking about it. I also grew up in a mostly male household and it’s that way now so I’ll have to look at conversations in a different way. We get so used to the way men act and talk that we don’t analyze the hows and whys anymore, at least for me. And I need to forget the way my male coworkers talk at work.
Thanks again!
One male author who writes women so well I can hardly believe it’s possible is Bret Lott. I’ve read Jewel and A Song I Knew by Heart and both had very believable female protagonists.
Randy, I’ve been out of town. Is it too late for the Male POV critique? I could really use your help so just in case, here is my submission.
“Abbie, come look. This is really –,” her scream cut him off. He spun around in time to see her back away from the door. He jumped onto the deck. “Are you alright? What happened?”
She pointed to the back door window. Inside was a kitchen that would have been outdated for his grandmother. The ancient stove door hung to the floor and the refrigerator wasn’t much more than an icebox.
A bit of a mess, but Abbie’s reaction had him expecting to see Hannibal Lecter having a snack in the kitchen. He saw something move. “Geez, it’s huge. I’ve never seen a rat that big.” The foul creature paused from rummaging through a pile of trash heaped in the corner. “It’s probably just looking for something to eat.” Ryan looked at Abbie’s pale face. “Don’t panic. I’ll kill it as soon as we get the key.”
“I’m not going in there.” Abbie’s cinnamon brown hair brushed her shoulders as she shook her head.
“Don’t freak on me. I said I’d kill it.” Why did women always over react to rodents? “But then again, it could be one of my relatives.”
“Ryan! That’s awful.”
“Hey, my old man was a rat, so why not a few more in the family?”
The old man. When had he started thinking of his father in those terms? When they were young he and Matt had called him Papa.
Randy, I don’t know if it’s too late, but here’s a segment of internal monologue I’d appreciate you critiquing. It’s from Battle for Revín, third book in The Lore of Efrathah. These are the thoughts of the main character, Jim.
>>
Thanks.
Becky
Well, I see my effort to separate the portion I was quoting actually worked to make it disappear! I’ll try again. Jim’s thoughts:
Maybe this was the weapon that spewed darkness over him when he wallowed helplessly in the marsh.
He wanted to believe so, wanted to ask the Abonah to confirm his suspicions that the Stone of Surrender could cause the fear he had known, the lure that pulled him toward the shadow, toward the seductress, but those questions would reveal more to his friends than he was willing to tell. As long as it was up to him, he would never discuss what happened in the swamp. The only others who had been there were the shadow creature that he hoped he would never see again and Paloh who was dead.
Becky
Well, looks like I missed a lively conversation. Likely for the best; I usually hate female characters as a general rule. 😛
Most of what I’d say has been said, but ah well.